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Discoverer |
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Discoverer |
And this is the legal opinion of the Government of the United Kingdom as expressed to the House of Lords by the Minister
http://www.publications.parlia.../text/90304w0004.htm
Clearly, just like Japan, other countries do not recognize these waters as Australian. And clearly the Japanese whaling is legal. |
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Discoverer |
Actually they do. The US government gives permits under the ICRW for whaling by native coastal tribes. Japan supports this action in the IWC but the US does not reciprocate with regards to Japan's own coastal communities. |
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Discoverer |
Your right,
I was going to mention the native tribes. But I was refering to anyone outside our borders to hunt whales here. So I didn't think I needed to. I thought is was obvious, sorry. |
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Discoverer |
Thanks! I just finished reading the Melbourne University interview with Charles Schencking. Interesting. I checked his bio both at Melbourne University and Hong Kong University. His field of expertise is in Japanese History for which he received his PhD. I looked at all his published articles and I can find no article by him on the Antarctic Treaty or on the UNCLOS outside this interview. While I do accept him as an expert on Japanese culture and history, I do not accept him as an expert on the Antarctic Treaty or the UNCLOS. He is not an expert in either the Treaty or the UNCLOS. My interpretation is just as valid as his. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain |
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Discoverer |
Did you notice what The Attorney General of Australia submitted to Justice Alsop regarding the Australian EEZ claim?
“reasonably expected to prompt a significant adverse reaction from other Antarctic Treaty Parties” If the EEZ claim was legal, there would be no "adverse reaction" from the US, Russia, China, India, Japan etc. |
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Discoverer |
Note this extract from an Australian Senate Hearing
"but also because of sensitivities within the Antarctic Treaty system" The violation of the Antarctic treaty by making the EEZ claim is acknowledged openly in the Aussie Senate. The AG refers to it in his submission to the Federal Court. Australia is unwilling to approach the ICJ, fearing an adverse ruling. Australia is unwilling to enforce the judgments of its own courts regarding the EEZ it claims in ts own laws. Its own judges talk about futility. It is clear to any sensible person that these are not Australian waters. |
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Discoverer |
Cornell Law School Berger International Speaker Series
http://scholarship.law.cornell...&context=biss_papers False Sanctuary: the Australian Antarctic Whale Sanctuary and Long-Term Stability in Antarctica Donald K. Anton Australian National University Law School |
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Discoverer |
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/pa...?abstract_id=1380122
Antarctic Whaling: Australia's Attempt to Protect Whales in the Southern Ocean Donald K. Anton University of Michigan - Law School; Australian National University - ANU College of Law
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Discoverer |
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Discoverer |
Under Article 4 of the Atnarctic Treaty. It nullifies Austrailia's EEZ claim under international law.
Which would mean Japan is not whaling in Austrailian waters, and therfore not "poaching" under Austrailian law. Japans is also completely legally killing whales for research. Because the Antarctic Treaty supercedes any claim by anyone, anywhere. So if Austrailia wants the EEZ they would have to withdraw from the Antarctic Treaty System, if they even can. |
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Discoverer |
That would trigger competing claims from nations far more powerful than Australia.
Both the US and the USSR reserved their rights to make Antarctic claims when they signed the treaty. If the ATS collapses, then US, Russia, China, India, Japan etc all make territorial claims. |
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Discoverer |
Ooooo...that would be fun!
I don't think Austrailia would pull out of it anyway. So Japan has nearly free reign and is 100% legal as it is now. So what happens with the SS will be very interesting. As far as registry revokation goes. I wonder what the SS will do when that happens. |
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Discoverer |
I saw where you posted many more opinions from other sources. I'll look at them and comment at my leisure but since this ruling is the only one that has any legal standing vis a vis the Japanese whaling fleet, I will be responding to this after I have read it. Have a good day.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain |
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Discoverer |
I read the entire section on the IWC. This was in no way a legal opinion. It was a question and answer session between Lord Ashcroft and Lord Hunt on changing the IWC charter. In no way did it deal with the Australian EEZ. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain |
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Discoverer |
The Antarctic Treaty of 1959 states in:
Article 4 - the treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force; So under this treaty the EEZ is illegally claimed. Which was claimed well after the Antarctic Treaty was established. And only 4 countries recognize the claim under UNCLOS. |
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Discoverer |
Cheater, cheater! That was not the final ruling of the Australian Federal Court. The ruling cited above was from 27 May 2005 and was a ruling denying the HSI lawsuit against the Whalers in Japan. Here is the link to the final ruling in this matter dated 15 January 2008: http://www.hsi.org.au/editor/a...ment_15_Jan_2008.pdf In part Justice Alsop writes on page 7 (page 9 in the PDF):
He goes on to talk about the results of his decision being overturned by the full court and the result (page 12 of the PDF:
HSI tried mailing the documents to the Japanese company twice as well as delivering them in person. All attempts to serve the company were refused. Here is what he said about JARPA, the organization granting the permits for the whale slaughter (page 15 of the PDF):
His finding:
Japan is most definitely whaling in Australian waters! He goes on to write about "futility" and the power of the Australian Federal Court to enforce its rulings on page 19 of the PDF:
The ruling concludes on page 22 of the PDF:
I like the part where he orders the Japanese whalers "be restrained"... The Sea Shepherd prop foulers work for me. Should slow the pirates down until the Australian Coast Guard arrives. This message has been edited. Last edited by: nbrownfzi, "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain |
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Discoverer |
so, Australia should dispatch navy?
Incidentally, if Ross Sea was AUS territory contrary to the fact), Aus should go arrest Sea Shepherd for illegally ramming ships, throwing chemicals, sailing a ship without a certified captain, etc. |
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Discoverer |
Only peaceful military operations in the Antarctic area are permitted under Article 1 of the Antarctic Treaty. Under the UNCLOS, only a warship can seize the Nishin Maru and they can't fire a shot across the bow of the Nishin Maru while in the ATS area or send over a boarding party because both acts are decidedly not peaceful. They can, however, trail the Japanese fleet until they reach international waters outside the Treaty zone and then order them to heave to and surrender. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain |
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Discoverer |
Australia may claim those waters.
Just as Somalia or Vanuatu or Panama may claim those waters. The fact remains that the rest of the world considers them international waters and under the Antarctic treaty these additional EEZ claims are prohibited. Australia may as well claim the moon. That is prohibited by treaty but Australia could ignore this as they ignore the AT. Any reasonable person can judge the validity of this claim by the actions of Australia. Not a single filing to the International Court of Justice. Not a move to prevent access to the purported EEZ, something every other state does. If these are Australian waters, then file a motion in the courts to compel the Australian government to enforce their laws. Or is Australia little better than Somalia? |
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